Wednesday, January 23, 2008

Digg is a Game - Let's Play For Real This Time

We, the undersigned (comment to join) are ready to find out if there is more to social bookmarking than Digg. We are going to stop submitting to Digg. The alternatives are plenty - now is the time to venture into new territory. As we organize we will evaluate and find a new space.

When a digital identity, like a Digg account, becomes penalized through its consistent interaction with a website we assume that site falls into one of two categories. Either (a. The site in question is ill-suited to become a healthy social network. or (b. The premise of the social network is such that it is based on competition.

Digg is, in part, a game. It always has been - and that is one of the reasons we love it. That it helped us share useful, entertaining or interesting content only made it that much more fun.

Unfortunately the rules to the game have never been under the community's full control. As far as we can tell, the rule-makers barely listen to us. The latest change in the algorithm, along with rumors of secret editors, auto-buries, etc., have led us to believe it is time to break ties with Digg.com.

Here are a list of the main charges against Digg:

1) Lack of communication and disregard for the Digg community
Digg is not a newspaper, a magazine, or a blog. It produces no content of its own and is entirely dependent upon its users for traffic. Digg users hunt down the stories online, craft the descriptions and titles, digg the stories, provide all the comments. Despite this dependency, anecdotal evidence suggests that Digg has repeatedly failed to respond to its users and address their concerns.

2) Unexplained and unacknowledged banning of top users
cGt2099, Emobrat, and others who have submitted hundreds of quality stories to Digg were recently banned under suspicious circumstances. Digg did not acknowledge these bannings, nor make any public explanation as to why they took place. These are not the actions of a "democratic news site."


3) Lack of transparency – Digg only shows you the stories that people have dugg, but not the ones that are buried.

This has resulted in the birth and flourishing of bury brigades, whose existence has gone unacknowledged, but which undoubtedly have the capability to shape what content gets onto the front page without any interference or objection from other Digg users.

4) The auto-bury list – For months, dozens of sites have been on an auto-bury list, often with no explanation whatsoever.
These sites often get submitted to Digg and then are invariably buried after a certain amount of time. While it's up to Digg what sites it wants to allow, it's important that if it brands itself as a democratic news site, it makes clear why it bans these sites.

5) Repeated and flagrant disrespect of its top users
Digg's top users generate roughly 30-50% of Digg's front page content but repeated and unexplained changes to the Digg algorithm have penalized the ability of top users to get front page stories promoted. Perhaps worst of all, this has resulted in other stories from lower ranked users with less diggs being forced off the "Hot In Upcoming" pages and hurt their ability to shine.

In short - the site has become too powerful a media force and its lack of transparency and faith in the community is reason for concern. In addition, the allure of instant traffic has led to the manipulation and abuse of the site by tolls and spammers.

The colletive "WE" built this site from the ground up and while it is sad to leave it, the time has come to move on. We as a loose group of social bookmarkers will find a new community that will allow us to stay in touch and stay informed.

If Digg is a game then we are ready to play for keeps. What happens if the users in the community decide to leave? Will others join? Is Digg anything without us? Let's prove it.

126 comments:

Michael said...

Sign me up. I'm all for colonizing another planet.

-m.destries

DigiDave said...

Who is ready to step out into the cold wilderness with me! It's scary but invigorating!

Plenty of open space.

M. said...

When Democracy doesn't work, you have to rebuild from bottom up. I'm here to help.

-msaleem

shea said...

I'm scared. Hold me Mu.

sheagunther42

BlogEx said...

Well hell if Mu's down, I'm down.

DigiDave said...

Don't forget to leave your Digg name.

I screwed up on that in my first post (my bad).

Digidave

Also - sign up for the email update. This will allow us to ping each other when we vote on a new social news site to try out.

Bukowsky said...

I like the idea... But it's a little scary at the same time. Count me in.

socialpyramid said...

Does the song "we're not gonna take it anymore" ring any bells? -socialpyramid

lizard said...

let's go!
(signed, dotlizard)

photopreneur said...

auto-buries. Insane algo.
count me in...

photopreneur

TalSiach said...

Digg Is nothing without her top users who spent a lot of time to find great stuff and to share with others. I'm in!!!! social media sites should be democratical and not dictatorial

Nathan said...

Democracy > Digg

Who wants to help me get this to the front page?

Andrew Flusche said...

I'll jump in!

aflusche

perkonis said...

Count me in. Not sure that the 7 or so people who Digg my submissions will notice. :(

SilentJay74 said...

Hey guys! I knew it was about to happen. cGt2099 called it a while back. Why don't you guys come join us at Mixx?

markee said...

the laundry don't get cleaned without the agitator..FTW!
MarkusGarvey...

cGt2099 said...

Swing by Mixx, guys. It's a much better place than Digg. Seriously.

Benjamin Melançon said...

Democratically moderated communication is what I consider key to people finding each other, working together, and making decisions ourselves that are now being made horrendously for us. The core to this, in my view, is different from the Digg model not just in transparency but in distributing the task of determining the importance of messages. A random group of people in the network, rather than those with the most time and access, can determine prominence for several communication channels.

(Everyone is still welcome to endorse an idea or statement, and even better pledge some tangible support of time or resources so people who care about any given topic can make plans to take action
– where action means a lot more than clicking a button.)

Who are you going to trust- a secret algorithm or a transparent network? The servants of a corporation or your fellow people? This can be far bigger than Digg. This can be bigger than network television.

We going to start coding and developing this? I'm in on anything that seeks no privileges for itself but instead is designed to help all people gain more power.

I think I'm I3IVIIVI on Digg.

And yes I've thought about this too much. On the plus side, I'm part of a group that's formed a now-501c3 nonprofit to fund free software and infrastructure for just this purpose: People Who Give a Damn. We're hoping this includes everyone!

free-ccna-answers said...

I'm in for SURE.

i hope kevin wakes up...

fastfastlane said...

What Shea and Photopreneur said

fastfastlane

Sepultura said...

I'm in with all of you (or should I say out). This Digg douchebaggery has got to stop.

- Sepultura

JONxBLAZE said...

I'm not a top user but I know most of you guys and I always Digg your stories not because you're a top digger but because your submissions were great.
It's a shame what Digg has become ad I think if you really want to stick it to Digg's face, you should start submitting all your stories to Mixx.

Anonymous said...

I agree. Going there just makes me feel very uncomfortable anymore.

Ryan Underdown said...

Digg throwing the users under the bus again? I'm elebrio on digg, and I'm in.

Devindra said...

Hot damn, it's about time the Digg users revolt!

As far as alternatives, you can get a better experience by combining Reddit with Mixx (as some have suggested).

WordsnCollision said...

Was it Patrick Henry who said "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"? I will do something. What have i got to lose, EVERY submission from my blog gets auto-buried, even if it makes FP. This ONLY happens at Digg - and there are alternatives - good ones - available.

oboy said...

Are there any doubts that I would sign this?

None on this end.

SeaMowse said...

Isn't this kinda like a reverse revolt, ala 'The Code'? Sure... I'm in.

Gerard Barberi said...

I just got here not too long ago, but sorry Digg. I'd rather go into the unknown spaces of social news than stay here and watch the decline of Democracy.

If users want to go on strike, then I'm down. We should have all unionized awhile ago.

-gbarberi

Atropos said...

Where do I sign?

bianconeri4ever

Crock.com said...

Crock.com is accepting users for beta testing. All feedback is greatly appreciated! The digg/fark alternative. We're making the internet fun again.

Crock.com - More addictive than crack

Kelly said...

The site's been deteriorating rapidly...lots of reasons...but I hate seeing the community getting the shaft lately from digg staff. And I just read Kevin Rose's lame corporate-robot-speak blog post reply to this issue...and that sealed it. I'm down with whatever will make things better. Count me in.

-Kelly

MikeonTV said...

Make the algorithm open source!!!!

That is all - MikeonTV

Matt (goldmonkey) said...

Count me in.

Anonymous said...

I've always loved digg, but this isn't right.
-MrPresident13

abe10110054 said...

ooh a revolution.. i wanna join!

Nash said...

I'm not a Top user but I digg upwards of 300 stories a day during the times before Digg started going downhill now I rarely see more than 45 stories that I even click much less Digg. the time is ripe for a change if y'all are leaving I'm down for it. Just we need to occupy another area of webspace together. just as digg is nothing without the community, the community is nothing without each other.

Ken Iovino said...

I'm a PHP programmer and I'd be happy to help - Ken

Jon said...

wow.
that was beautifully written.

a country needs a healthy revolution every now and then, its purifying.
goodbye Digg.

Michael said...

NewMan1320 is in! You can count on me guys.

p0ss said...

Kevin is selling Digg, the only thing that even makes digg valuable is us, our time. I have been talking about this for a while, and I am very glad I am not the only one who feels betrayed.
-p0ss

rainmanjam said...

I'm in BlindingDawn

Anonymous said...

someone needs to create a site for all the displaced digg users

Anonymous said...

banniNation.com

Created by ex-farkers after the redesign.

The site you can't be banned from.

Tomboys said...

I'm on board! The best thing to come out of digg for me are the really cool people I've met. I do feel much more relaxed at mixx.... I see very little negativity there. Probably because people aren't anonymous.

EmberJohn said...

Count me in Guys.....
Let's teach these guys a lesson.

Chris1234 said...

If Kevin going to stick with his decision...he should change the digg count algo for all of us..For every story 25 Diggs is enough to hit the FP.

Anonymous said...

Suggestions:

- reddit.com: well, if you like it, we all know it's there. The UI is extremely simple. that might be a let down for some people.

- propeller.com: it's got some publicity, it belongs to a giant (that might not be a good thing though), it already has a large audience and featured stories do get a lot of comments (this you don't see in any other site, exept for reddit).

- mixx.com: it's pretty, it's fresh and has some neat features (I'm still exploring it so I don't know much).

- corank.com: the customization features are the best I've seen and I don't understand why Digg hasn't just copied them instead of messing up with their own algorithms, really.

which one to pick? Probably none. I'd like to see Digg become a site with Mixx UI, coRank features and Reddit's audience. Yeah, that's what I'd like :-) I can pass on the UI thing - I do like Digg's UI.

Dominic said...

I'm willing to help.

-noobydom

Anonymous said...

I used to like Kevin, but now he's just a celebrated alcoholic who has built his own base of people. If you're not in that group, you are pretty much worthless in the Digg community--prepared to be buried.

I just hope any potential buyers realize what they are truly getting.

Anonymous said...

digg is dead like a year ago
get over it

Jim Robert said...

Count me in... I vote for reddit or mixx

American Goy said...

Well I pretty much just started blogging, and was just oh so proud to add a Digg button to my blog (among others).

Great.

Now I have to rethink the whole social bookmark phenomena...

The Cranky Jerk said...

I'm by no means a top digger. I have had a couple of storied get front paged a long time ago when digg was actually good, but now all we see are crap stories on the FP, all the good upcomming ones seem to vanish without a trace.

banmaster

Anonymous said...

im in, f da nu digg

len said...

A friend and I setup a digg clone:

www.clobbr.us

feel free to join. maybe the community would like to recolonize there?

Anonymous said...

just stay away from reddit, really, it sucks.

daaaveg said...

I could not agree more...i get a blank white page when I sign in now they won't even let me log in.

gnomey said...

Mixx is the new Digg. They seem to respect users, something we don't see at Digg.

gnomey said...

I am very sorry I missed all this tonight, and I would have loved to have the opportunity to be in on the chat.

I hope they make good on opening up some communication. I have written to them and, of course, gotten no response.

username: gnomey

tiagoiscrazy said...

I'm in.

tdawg202

Mixx Sucks said...

Mixx is the new Digg???? Please.... You've got to be kidding!!

"People are so nice there"... Ohohhh...

What? You visted Digg to have the same level of conversations you have with your mother? If I wanted sweet talk between wimps, then yeah, I'd go to Mixx.

Anonymous said...

digg content has gotten to be just garbage.. its more for killing braincells than evolving yourself.. I'm down for the cause

- nuiman

Anonymous said...

Digg is lame, and you guys are even lamer for taking yourselves so seriously. "Prominent diggers"? Wow-- there's an ego trip. Hate to burst your bubble, but you are merely fanboys of the lamest social bookmark site there is. You're completely irrelevant.

good luck with your little boycott. I'll do my part by continuing to not use digg!

trustnobodybutyourself said...

I just posted this comment on the last post, but since this article seems to be getting the most reads, here I go again. My take...

If you're upset with Digg owners, before you move somewhere else, you should look at WHO owns whatever place you may consider, not how pretty the site is or cool the users are.

From that perspective, this is my quick analysis, based solely on my own opinion:

Propeller: Do you think I'm going to trust AOL? They've already killed Netscape! Enough said.

Reddit: I just don't quite trust CondeNast (the owners of Reddit) but compared to AOL, I'd pick these guys any time. Still, a big company is a big company. Users are just an asset to be used for the bigger goal of profitability. Yet, so far, Reddit has been faring quite well under CN's arms, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Mixx: Mixx is run by Chris McGill, an ex-Yahoo exec. If you think Kevin Rose is evil, he is NOTHING compared to Mr.McGill. Kevin's a geek who's learning things the hard way. McGill is a "seasoned" executive who is simply playing the "cool" role he knows he has to play now, and newbies are buying it. If this guy was in front of Digg right now, he'll focus on PROFITABILITY and SELLING the damn thing, and will give a rat's ass about the users, much MUCH less than Kevin or Ray. I'd rather a geek than a suit.

Not much left... My suggestion is that if the Digg issue is not resolved, some top diggers should create a Pligg-based site - whatever your opinion of Pligg may be. Now, since building a platform with Pligg that supports the load may be hard at first (and it costs money), I would suggest to start by creating a coRank site - they have the platform already in place - under your own domain (call it revoltnation.com or whatever), and if the site kicks in and can be self-supported, eventually move it out of coRank to a self-hosted Pligg-based site (or whatever software becomes available at the time). Since the domain would be the same, the jump won't imply telling users "hey we were there but now we're here".

Personally that would be the best option IMHO, and you should add an option under the "other social news sites" that says "build our own". Why give candy to someone else who may stick it to you anyways when the time comes? I'd trust any of the top diggers any day before any big company or "seasoned executive". Social news at its best. Built by/for us. Think about it.

Phil0s0pher said...

Sharing links for links sake is dead and buried. Where digg started is great, but whats the point in sharing links with such a niche crowd? Only people who understand social networking sites get to reap the fruits of your labour. Why not increase output to television?

Current.com is tackling all of the issues you have laid out, and as well as that it has the unique selling point of having a TV channel. Current want a "two screen experience" which basically means they are trying to get internet news on TV and visa vesa, breaking down the barriers between media formats.

If you want to link share to a decent audience and have the serious output potential available with television then it's a no brainer. Current.com is a sure fired winner, they have a TV station, no-one else does.

There's only one logical place to go to.

http://www.current.com

Sam said...

count me in

Digg Name: Poonamemails

Nekiruhs said...

Wow. Just after I seriously started to get in to Digg it begins to suck. Count me in.

nekiruhs

newmediatype said...

Interesting ... I very curious to see what's going to happen next ...

Lex - www.newmediatype.com

Anonymous said...

What Democracy? This isn't a Democracy. The Owners of Digg are Elitists. I was kicked off the site for using the word "Fascism" too much. How Fascist. Go back to Sleep, Amerikans. Don't worry, you'll be waking to The 2nd Great Depression Part 2. You deserve everything you'll get.

betterthangoogle said...

I'm not a digg submitter but I am a heavy digg commenter.

I was looking forward to hitting 3k, but hell I'm down for a better site any day.

Count me in:

digg: betterth

Anonymous said...

I'm not a major Digger, but I'm also not going to stay with this kind of action going on. I will follow the leaders because of their submissions that help keep me informed. BTW - It was Edmund Burke who said that all evil needed to win was for good to do nothing. Same time period, but Burke was a Brit. I'm out.

alsahir

Adrian said...

I was just beginning to make some good friends on Digg, and build on my front page score. Although recently I have found it harder to get anywhere on Digg and now I know why... Bugger it... I'M IN!

adrian67

brooklynzoo said...

Im with you fam. They have my blog on auto bury as well. I have a story sitting with 100 diggs and is dead

max said...

Supporting this. Appreciate those that make digg the community that is today!

Joscarfas said...

I'm for it. -- No Kevin you have to stay

Toby said...

Fuck the Digg top diggers!!!
This petition STINKS!!!

The marketers are getting all their friends to sign this as well, just like on digg. Haha. Suck my balls.

lupisak said...

Well, what can I say?
I love freedom, I love democracy, I love capitalism. Capitalism can live nicely side by side with both freedom and democracy (unlike communism and dictatorships), but when big corporate entities get too much power, they turn into dictatorships. In most free countries, there are antitrust regulations preventing corporate giants growing that big, but on the net we don't have this protection. Only a revolution like this can change things, just like in a country with dictatorship.
I strive to avoid using proprietary software and networks to prevent locking myself in. Keeping my freedom is very important to me. It can be difficult at times, but in the end it's worth it. Although most intelligent people on the net today know that using Windows instead of a host of open source alternatives is going to lock you in more and more, as the vendor (what's their name again?) will do all they can to push solutions that benefits them instead of the consumer, most of the same people give much less thought to the networks they're using. This is a great example of how little control you have over them. The same goes for proprietary webmail systems (gmail/yahoo/etc), instant messaging and chat systems, social networking sites, etc. POP3/IMAP accounts can be had for peanuts from professional web hosts, IRC is free, open, and have existed since the stone age.
If you believe that whatever proprietary network you decide to jump to when you ditch digg will be any better, I can only say good luck!
What we need is an open social network, which is ruled, governed and controlled by the users. I realize that there are a few obstacles to this though:
- money. Proprietary networks usually get money from advertising. If your entire software is open source and freely available, what prevents everyone else creating half a million copycat sites and steal your advertising money, which you need to pay for hosting. Can be solved by making the source closed or for review only, but make the "government" transparent, open and democratic.
- spam/abuse. Less of a problem, as users will quickly make rules for themselves to prevent this.

I've been a software architect for nearly a decade. With the right team of professionals, I will consider joining a coalition to create such an open alternative. I love a challenge!

Anonymous said...

I for one agreed 100% with this issues and something needs to be done . Done for free speech, equal rights and a just and fair community. But, this has happened before only a couple of months ago and we can always do it again. Make Kevin Rose come out and face the people that made him who he is

Lectrik said...

Count me in

Lectrik

Ryan said...

I've been working on my own social news site for a while now, trying to improve on the things I didn't like with digg.

If anyone has any suggestions on things they would like to see I would like to hear.

Its at www.linkbin.com. I made it a 5 star voting system because of how much people hate not being able to see when stuff is burried. This way you see an average rating so you know if a lot of people hate it.

I also just finished an rss aggregator so you can browse feeds in different categories from many major news sites, it's at www.linkbin.com/browse.php

I'm not trying to spam my site, I just figured most of the people here would know what sort of things would and wouldn't work. I'm not doing it to make money, that is actually a reason I left digg after all the talk about them selling out to fox news or the highest bidder. I didn't feel comfortable reading the news at a place being swayed by deep pockets.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
dirvish said...

What a bunch of whiners. The void they leave will be quickly filled with little trouble for Digg.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Editor said...

Absolutely right! This is not a new syndrome but only an additional cloud over the rules of a game. No one wants to play a game when they don't know the rules.

The idea of both a Digg and Bury vote has always bothered me as it represents not only voting but negative doubling. Everyone knows this. If there is a bury at all, it should simply be a symbolic vote (not affecting story placement at all). Otherwise, there is huge, unbearable gaming. If you don't like a story or its submitter, deprive them of your votes and comments. Enough!

If, in addition to this already crazy system, they "qualify" the one vote, one member idea without a clear explanation of the formula, then how can anyone respect the integrity. This is much like electronic balloting without paper trails for auditablility. It becomes a sham to have a vote at all.

Why doesn't Kevin Rose (It's my ball, so I make the rules) simply tell everyone that the rankings are a result of his opinions, likes, and dislikes and nothing else. If that is what Digger want, they can continue to help him make a fortune on his ego infliction!

Otherwise, go to Propeller where humans still thrive!

Anonymous said...

m00kie ready to go.

Kaushik said...

I'm with it. And please read this one.

http://www.instantfundas.com/2007/12/full-disclosure-who-is-cheating-on-digg.html

Blog Master said...

Sign me up too

Lara O'Brien said...

digg has lost the 'social' in 'social media'. Hope Kevin's enjoying his money. My back's not bent any longer. Ready to give mixx and otehrs a go.

Tamar said...

I support my fellow community members!

Anonymous said...

I'm totally in...

babblin5

Max Carter said...

That's right, wake up people! Kevin Rose went from a total geek to this whole "kevin rose new improved 2.0" version. It's called MAREKTING.

I mean, the guy was running around telling everyone he couldn't afford a coach, yet he has an iphone. Come on, how stupid are you people? Digg is all about $. I ain't saying that's wrong but UNDERSTAND what this site is and who the people behind it are.

Nobody remembers the whole incident when Business Week had him on the cover? "How Kevin Rose made 160 Million $"??!! Anyone? Then those guys SCRAMBLED to make sure it was disputed.

They relied on you to make them popular, behind a veener of sincerity. These guys are laughing all the way to the bank, understand this.

Just thought I'd point this out.Do research people.

Jack said...

Hey Great post that I found on Mixx, by the way. Go out and use several sites and if I may be so bold try our www.hatedorloved.com as well. The site is VERY beta right now but upgrades are coming soon.

blogid1 said...

play for real is only with the games of game the forex trade game

timon weller said...

Well yeah, digg is just one form of social networks out there its best to use many forms...

Anonymous said...

Try Subbmitt.com which is similar to digg except that all articles submitted to Subbmitt.com make the front page. You can vote if you want, but that just controls the popularity for recommended articles, not the front page. The front page is basically the queue. This small change makes the site more dynamic and also raises the visibility of your posts so everyone makes the front page. You also do not need to register or login to post articles or comments.

Anonymous said...

pussies. Quit crying.

Green Gnome said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

if they dont delete stories....
they will run out of webspace.

Anonymous said...

I found this post through Google and I thought you might like to be one of the first to comment on my new site www.ihatekevinrose.com. Pass it on...

pepelu12 said...

The fuckers banned me for no reason anyway - count me in


pepelu12

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